如果...我们真的想要通过教育促进社会流动？|观点交锋（双语）
截图源自screenshot source: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news-events/events-pub/oct-2017/what-if-furthering-social-mobility-through-education
在开始阅读之前请注意：
这只是一个中国学生出于兴趣的翻译练习( 本次内容主要是对其中一场辩论嘉宾与观众互动环节的诠释）。尽管得到了学院的许可，但绝非这一系列辩论内容的官方译本，且不保证翻译精准度，更像是带有个人色彩的解读。如果你想要知道原意，请以英文官网为准：http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news-events/events-pub/oct-2017/what-if-furthering-social-mobility-through-education
Before you go, please notice:
This is just a Chinese student’s translation practice due to her own interest (the content is mainly about summarising Q&A part in one of the debates). Despite of permission from IOE, but this is not the official translation of the debates, nor a 100% correct translation to the original ideas. It is more like a personal interpretation. If you would like to know theoriginal ideas, please refer to: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news-events/events-pub/oct-2017/what-if-furthering-social-mobility-through-education
首先我们再来想想昨天推送留下的这个思考题，如果你大权在握，有几十亿的教育经费，你要怎么花？
Another way to look at this debate: if you were in charge, and had billions to spend on education, how would you spend it?
带着这个问题，我们来看这场辩论在嘉宾陈述个人观点之后的一分钟回应和听众提问环节：
With that question in your mind, now we are to review the speakers' one minute response and Q&A:
主持人Becky Francis教授在各位嘉宾发言结束之后，引入了文化资本*这个经典的社会学概念，同时提到自己在听到顶尖大学可能在维持不平等和不流动时心头一紧，的确在现在这个市场化的高等教育体系中，好像所有的事情都围绕着全球排名在打转，成绩也成了学生进入大学的基础，高等教育好像陷入了一个问题重重的循环。但至少现在，我们可以敞开来谈这些议题。
We haven't touched very much on issues about cultural capital.
I was very heartened, at the end,
that David introduced the topic of universities
and our role in maintaining
both inequality and immobility potentially.
It was a really interesting point that David made about the global challenges here,
we are now in our marketised higher education system,
all playing in terms of global rankings,
which, as David said, score on the basis of high student grades for access.
We're caught in this problematic cycle.
We've opened up all sorts of issues.
首先做出回应的是Kate Pickett教授，她指出这场辩论的严肃性，因为现在的教育系统对很多人来说都是一个伤疤，因为他们如果不是从小就顺风顺水的聪明小孩，那么他们从小就因此受限。即便他们成功了，也实现了自己的社会（阶层）流动，但他们心里也始终有教育系统留下的伤痕。在她眼中，让每个人都实现社会流动是在浪费时间，如果我们没有让都充分实现自己的潜能、兴趣，做出自己的贡献，这才是浪费时间。这个社会不需要人人都是医生，我们也需要护士和护工，我们也需要有厨师和清洁工，三百六十行都是维持社会运转所必须的。我们要重视这些贡献，将职业教育和学术教育同等看待。高等教育并不能够让工人阶层的孩子华丽转身，甚至可能让他们背上更重的债务，欠款更多、得到的更少。他们相比出身中产的同学，在找到适合某类工作时就是会更难一些。而症结所在是，教育系统还有很多不足。
because what we're talking about
is a system that scars people.
From an early early age, they are scarred by their limitations if they don't succeed.
If they do succeed in being socially mobile,
they are scarred as well.
There's stigma throughout the system.
It's not wasteful to not have everybody socially mobile.
It's wasteful if we don't make the most of people's capabilities,
interests and contributions.
We don't need everybody to be doctors.
We need some people to be nurses and some people to be care assistants
and some people to make food and some to clean the floors
and some people to wipe your bum,
we need all of that.
We need to value all those contributions in different ways.
We need to value vocational things as much as intellectual things.
Higher education doesn't transform working class students
in the same way it transforms other people.
They end up with more debt,
they owe more and they get less.
They are less likely to get the kinds of jobs
that middle class students get when they go through higher education.
The system is painfully painfully inadequate.
随后的James Croft则从政策角度来看社会流动性与教育的关系，他认为从政策角度来看，过去的30年英国是从去年的报告来看可以说是收效甚微，但一直不间断地有努力在改变。那么未来应该继续面对现实，在现有的系统中逐步做出切实的改变。他希望看到一个开放的系统中，在其中通过有条不紊地组织、提供更多的信息和更清晰的发展路径，让年轻人能够提升自己的人力资本**。
there’ve been reports in the last year around social mobility
and improving equity for disadvantaged people,
looking at policy success.
They have pretty consistently basically said we've had very little policy success.
We've seen efforts over 30 years to try to improve this.
So I feel that what we need to be doing is working up realistic proposals
to work with the system that we've got
to do the best that we can with it.
I want to see an open system.
One which you can move around in, educationally.
With clear pathways, that's well organised.
That has good information and guidance
That's predicated on a range of ways of valuing emerging human capital, if you like to use that economic term, in young people.
随后做出回应的是Diane Reay教授，她给出了两个数据来佐证自己的观点是学生进入大学有自己的期待，那就是有好的学习体验之外，更是找到一个好的工作。而现实却是来自工人阶级的年轻人并没有因为读了大学就找到好工作，反而是有了更重的经济负担。
The number of graduates in non-graduate employment
is now 59.7%.
They are disproportionately young people from working class backgrounds.
The government longitudinal educational outcome dataset
shows that five years after graduation,
average earning for business graduates from Wolverhampton
getting £19,200.
At the University of Oxford, they're getting £70,700.
That's a staggering difference of £52,000.
Of course I want everyone to go to university, and for free!
But, what young people are sold,
particularly non-traditional young people,
is that they will also get a good job.
All the research shows when they talk about
what they expect from university
they expect a good job as well as positive learning experiences.
And it is promising that and it cannot deliver it.
It's a cost for working class students,
as average debts now are hitting £59,000 a year.
最后做出回应的是有从政经历的David Willetts爵士，他认为现在左派让工人阶级孩子不去上大学是极度危险的，从现代经济的结构来看，上大学是平均而言最好的选择，当然何时、何地、上什么大学还是需要因人而异的。但就他自己所在的选区而言，最有效的一条加速个人发展机遇的路就是让更多人上大学。
I'm absolutely clear that for many of those young people,
going to university would have been a very good option for them.
We're getting some extremely dangerous, sophisticated arguments from the left
that young working class kids should not go to university.
This is absolutely the wrong advice for them.
Clear advice for them is if you look at the structure of a modern economy,
the best bet you've got is going to university.
Now, I am talking averages,
and there are absolutely divergences by what you study
and by when you study,
but the most powerful single way I could boost the opportunities of those on the council estate
would have been more of them going to university.
他随后也提到了债务问题的时候，只有工作给的薪酬足够高才能够支付学生时期的助学贷款，这和透支、抵押不一样。但每当人们说起上大学会让工人家庭出身的学生背上债务的时候，好像是阻碍工人阶层的学生发展的机遇。这不是理查德·霍加特《识字的用途》中对工人阶级文化的赞歌，而是在对来自相对弱势的工人家庭出身的学生说：别去了！不是为你准备的！这在他看来是错误而危险的。
The argument of the debt?
You know perfect well, that they'll only pay back if they're in well-paid jobs.
It's not like an overdraft or a mortgage.
Every time people say...
This is conspiring in blocking opportunities for working class kids.
It's not a celebration of working class culture
in a Richard Hoggart 'The Uses of Literacy' style.
It's saying don't go if you're from a poor working class background,
it's not for you.
That is wrong and it's dangerous.
在嘉宾回应结束之后，主持人开始请工作人员递话筒给在场的听众，第一轮的三个问题分别是：
第一个问题又回到了“医生和护士”上，这位观众的问题让议题拓展到探讨下行的社会流动性。
Hi, I agree with David in terms of
the nursing assistant being morally equivalent to a doctor,
however I don't think that is what happens in society
and the monetary value which is placed on different professions
does bring within it in certain aspects a moral judgement.
Maybe moral is the wrong word.
But I think one of the things we fail to do is talk about downward social mobility.
第二个问题是TES的编辑根据Facebook上在线观看的听众提出问题转问，是关于教育系统中的奖惩评估机制，尤其是英国教育标准局奖励那些有更少的“弱势儿童”的学校，从而影响教师和校长择校的问题。
who asks, slightly less prosaically than some of the arguments,
he points out that the entire accountability system,
especially OFSTED,
is set up to reward those schools with fewer Pupil Premium kids
or deprived kids,
which as a consequence, means teachers and heads are less keen
to go and work in those schools.
What would the panel suggest we do about that?
第三个提问的是一位在中学工作的女士，她提到了地理对社会流动性的影响，比如是地方对于当地的学校发展产生的影响。在伦敦中心政策的影响下，伦敦以外的区域是如何发展转变的？
I just wanted to touch on the idea of geography
and how that intersects with social mobility.
I was particularly interested in Lord Willett's comment
about how somebody visited a school in London
and teachers and children had a dialogue about some problems.
I worked in a school in Hartlepool.
No-one's ever asked my children about the problems they face.
Because there's less of a voice, there's a very London centric policy.
How much do you think is transferable outside of London?
To what extent do some of these issues need to be more firmly rooted in place?
第一轮提问的第四个问题是关于社会结构顶层的社会流动情况，如果人人都往顶上走了，顶层往哪里走呢？
Just a question about social immobility
at the very top of the social structure.
If we were to boost social mobility,
then some space is going to have to be created,
what about social mobility at the top?
I'm thinking here about social advantages,
and advantages of the elite,
families that don't seem to generate enough opportunity
for those working class and other families moving up on top.
第一个做出回应的是Kate Pickett教授对于“认可度(recoginition)”的回应，据她的研究发现：在越不平等的社会里，儿童往往有越高的抱负。因为在越不平等的社会，人们越想要更高的社会地位，越想要功成名就，而没能意识到各行各业都在做出自己的贡献。
I thought you made a good point and in our research,
what we've found is that a higher proportion of young people
express higher aspiration in more unequal societies.
That worried us for a while,
because we weren't sure what it meant.
Then we realised those were the same societies where more children fail.
More children are not in employment or education or training,
they drop out of high school and educational scores are lower.
It's a really sad disconnection that aspiration seems to be higher
where they are less likely to be achieved.
That is the impact of inequality
because unequal societies make people want to have more status.
It makes them want those higher incomes, that celebrity,
those positions of status
and not value all the different ways they can contribute.
There is a real mismatch between what we think we mean
when we say aspirations,
and what is possible for populations and what it is we really value.
随后James Croft试图回应OFSTED相关的问题，指出这些处于劣势的学校需要得到更多的额外资源。但他从奖励那些有更好的表现的学校谈起，说到了现在各个学校都很看重的Progress8，的确让学校各项事务更行之有效地运转，但的确没能给学生的不同背景留出空间来。可奖惩机制本身目前也的确有很多挑战，比如该如何确定什么是学校里最基础的层面？如何判断在一些“难教”的地方某些学校做得好呢？
it rewards the schools
with the higher-achieving cohorts and high prior attainment.
Progress8, which is what we're talking about,
is an aggregate measure
that tries to take account of the attainment of all the students in school
but unfortunately the loss is that the design loses any sense
of differential effectiveness.
Which schools are being effective
with different profiles of student, for example.
Given that that's the best we have,
we don't have any contextual...
There's no allowance made for context
in our accountability structure.
We've got a lot of challenges to try to figure out
how to identify when schools are at a basic level.
How do we identify when schools are doing well in difficult areas?
As far as the regional aspect of this goes,
I do think it's really important that we
are able to resource schools fairly
in a way that gives additional resources
to schools in disadvantaged cohorts.
David Willetts回应了第三个问题。他提出Hartlepool的学校应该与附近的产业比如尼桑和本田有更紧密的联系，因为大学不仅是研究生涩的学问，大学也是产学研一体化过程中重要的一环。
I don't know Hartlepool as well as I know London,
I guess the universities nearest you are Teeside and Sunderland.
Both of which are excellent universities
and, if I was a local person,
one of the many useful services they provide in the North-East,
is that if you want to get a job on the production line,
in Nissan or Honda,
nowadays you probably need to do Automotive Engineering
and Sunderland and Teeside have fantastic courses for that.
This picture we're hearing of universities as an esoteric, academic route
that doesn't value technical or vocational.
That's a very narrow view of the missions of universities.
Universities are a way into many jobs in manufacturing industry
and I've seen both those universities at work
and I've admired them.
Diane Reay教授对社会不流动性和下行的社会流动做出了回应。下行的阶层流动就像是房间里的大象（人人都看到，而且受影响，但都心照不宣地不说），她提到了英美都有研究指出工人阶级的学生即使在大学得到了文化资本，学习成绩优秀，但却总是没能得到有用的社会资本，还是被排除在一些社交圈之外。
there's some very interesting research in the US and the UK
which shows that when working class non-traditional students,
this is across ethnicity, go to elite universities,
they acquire cultural capital.
They do well academically.
But they often fail to acquire useful social capital.
They are excluded from those social networks
where the power and influence lies.
第二轮的问题从IOE前院长Geoff Whitty开始，他想问台上嘉宾的问题是：
我们如何处理私校在英国占据绝对统治地位这件事呢？是通过慈善机构来解决？除了取缔私校之外，有没有其他的建议呢？
how do we tackle this extreme dominance
of private schooling in this country?
Is it through charity status?
One of the panel said to make it illegal to go to private schools.
Have other members of the panel got other suggestions
of how we deal with that?
第二轮的第二个问题是关于打破录取与学区之间的关联，那么如何看待哪些中产父母用钱筑起学校的壁垒呢？
There's broad consensus among the panel that breaking the link
between admissions and proximity to schools would be good,
but how do you expect to get middle-class affluent voters
to vote for being able to price their way into schools.
第二轮的第三个问题也来自线上的网友，是关于课程对于社会流动性的影响，比如中学阶段的英语课程。
Asking for thoughts on the impact of curriculum on social mobility
especially high-stakes subjects like GCSE English.
Kate Pickett教授再次以芬兰为例提到了激进的教育变革，芬兰即使是私校也是政府注资的，她对这类私校表示困惑，但觉得激进的变革是可能的，因为在芬兰就实现了，而且现在芬兰也是领跑欧洲教育。
We do see that in Finland.
That radical decision was taken.
It was part of whole-system change.
It wasn't the only change they made.
It was part of the whole system change.
It shot them up the rankings so they are now at the top
of educational achievement in Europe.
I was trying to look it up on the train when I was coming down here.
Are there really no private schools in Finland?
There are a few.
They are funded by the state and they can't charge fees.
I'm struggling to figure out in what way they're private.
Certainly, it's possible,
to make these really radical changes
if we want to optimise the wellbeing of our school children.
I think it refers to the question you asked
about how you persuade white middle class parents
that they don't want a separate education for their own children
within the state sector.
随后，Diane Reay教授也做了补充，她援引了英国学长托尼（R.H.Tawney）的观点：
一个好的家长应该对所有孩子都像对待自己孩子一样。
I use Tawney a lot and he has another quote,
"The good parent should want for all children
what they want for their own child."
I think that's a really important thing to hold onto.
We should want, for all children, a good education.
Not a second-rate education so we can get a first-rate one ourselves.
If that makes me a radical, so be it.
在“幼吾幼以及人之幼”的观点之后，是David Willetts爵士对学校如何录取学生的回应。在他看来，像买彩票一样的抽签入学对于申请人数太多的学校而言或许是可行的一个方式，但他更想讲核心的问题在于谁不希望自己的孩子进牛剑，他作为一个政治家也希望自己的选区里更多学生上顶级大学。这并不是说自己就不关心他们在生活中做的其他事，觉得哪些不重要。而是考虑到如今的英国，他会更希望自己选区的孩子有这样的机会可以选择。
I would to put it very crudely,
thinking of my own political experience in my constituency,
I would have wanted more kids from the estate in Havant
to go to Oxbridge and UCL.
That does not mean I did not value the other things they did in their lives,
but given that Britain is as it is today,
you can have dreams of a completely different society,
but given Britain as it is today,
I would rather more kids from my estate had that opportunity.
最后主持人Becky Francis教授收尾，感谢嘉宾和听众共同创造了这场精彩的辩论，并且提到了无论左派还是右派其实都在讨论着知识的价值，这也是我们作为教育从业者不应回避的话题。
The curriculum question I think probably falls to me
as the educationalist here.
I think this is a real dilemma
because it comes back to some of the questions that have been coming here
about the value of prestigious knowledge,
powerful knowledge as Michael Young has it,
versus inclusivity and valuing all knowledge wherever we may find it.
I think that we're not clear on this.
It's something we need, on the left and the right,
to be clearer about.
在最后，我想继续抛出一个问题：你认为未来的教育会是什么模样？
Last but not least, I would like to invite you to imagine the future for education, what would be your image for future education?
*文化资本(cultural capital)是法国社会学家布迪厄(Pierre Bourdieu)首先提出的理论术语，是文化社会学的关键概念。
**人力资本(human captial)是美国经济学家贝克尔(Gary Becker)在上世纪60年代时提出的概念。
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